S4/E39-The Shattered Future: The Invisible Loss (Part 2)

In Part 2, Bruce and Kristin continue their conversation about the shattered future that follows child loss. Together, they talk about the milestones that can hit without warning, birthdays, New Year’s, graduations, weddings, and the quiet moments that remind grieving parents of all that was lost.

They also speak candidly about resentment, remembrance, and the deep longing to have their children’s lives acknowledged by others. This episode is a gentle but honest conversation about grief support, the lifelong nature of bereavement, and why it matters to keep saying our children’s names, sharing their memories, and making room for love that still has nowhere to go.

Transcript

Milestones And Protecting Your Space

SPEAKER_03 0:36

Welcome back to Don't Forget to Breathe. I'm Bruce Barker here with my co-host, Kristen Glenn. In the last episode, we began talking about something many grieving parents carry but don't always have words for. The shattered future. Not just the memories behind us, but the life that was supposed to unfold in front of us, the milestones we imagined, the moments we expected to witness, the versions of our children we never got to meet. In this part of our conversation, we talk about those moments that can catch us off guard, the turn of a new year, a graduation, a wedding, a birthday, the milestones that remind us of who should be standing beside us. We also talk about something that many parents feel but rarely say out loud. The longing for our children to still be remembered, to still have their names spoken, to know that their lives mattered and continue to matter. If you're a grieving parent listening today, we hope this conversation helps you feel a little less alone. And if you're someone walking alongside a parent who has lost a child, maybe this helps you understand just a little more about the love that remains and the grief that continues to travel with us. Here's part two of our conversation, The Shattered Future. I know the you mentioned the wedding, the graduation. Those hit hard already.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Yeah, those hit really hard. You know, that first going way back, that first uh New Year's Day. Boy, I'm really gonna date myself. But that was back in the day of writing checks. So I remember writing a check and thinking, he's never going to be part of this year. And I had not braced for that. I brace for other milestones pretty intentionally. About this time every year, I start kind of shutting down, not opening my space to as many people. I haven't found how I want to celebrate milestones or to honor milestones or to grieve milestones, whatever I'm doing, right? But I have found ways I don't want to. And the things I don't want to do is I don't want to pretend it's just another day. I do not want to risk being around idiots. And I don't want to have anything asked of me. And those are my three things. And that sounds real selfish and real simple, but that's what I've learned over 30 plus years. Is those are my three mantras, and I live by them, and I narrow my world. I don't I don't open myself up to people I don't trust a lot. Yeah, and I don't want anything extra asked of me because I don't know what I want to give. What about you?

SPEAKER_03 3:50

Until a few years ago, uh, and I may uh I think I may have shared this last season, but when I became really intentional with her birthday and knew that I wanted, I was not gonna let that day take anything away from me, but that I was going to share it with her. And, you know, started this, you know, the the project with uh that pottery piece, and then that wasn't every year, and then when I had finished all that, then this past year, I'm like, what am I gonna do? But I knew I was gonna do something, and it really didn't hit me until that morning that uh on the morning of her birthday, I woke up and the idea was instantly there, and it was going through those thousands of photos and making a music video or music montage, whatever you'd want to call it. And that became my project for the day.

SPEAKER_02 4:52

Oh, that's beautiful.

SPEAKER_03 4:53

It was so good, it was so fun. I mean, and we can, I don't know, let's see what you think. We could we could always post it on the on the our Instagram page and the and Facebook. Um, but it's just it's just for her birthday. It's beautiful. Honored to see it. It was uh because it was I and and this was a thing, the song that and and this'll this'll be, you know, we talked about triggers and landmines. This will be a trigger or a landmine for someone, but the song that I heard, and it was the in the first year after she died, I knew then I wanted to do it, but I didn't do it for 19 years later, right? So, but the song, and maybe this is this will be like like I said, the the trigger warning or the landmine warning. If anyone when we post it, if anyone wants to do it or not do it, do it without the sound. But the song is from uh uh the band Perry, if I die young.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Oh wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:57

So it was emotional and powerful doing the video, but it was it was my tribute to her, and it was a birthday that we were again those those moments that we didn't get to share together on earth in the same place, but I wasn't gonna let that lost future take that day, and so we got to do it together.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

That's incredible.

New Year Grief And Looking Ahead

SPEAKER_03 6:32

So that and other holidays, New Year's uh was always a big thing for me and for her because it was about reflect back on the year of what was and then look at what the next year could be. But then now that's kind of the story of this. I look back what was with her, and then you look ahead of what could be. So New Year's is a little, it's it can sting a little. Um, and then of course we all talk about you know you know we all know about holidays, and and those are really hard for probably all of us. But it seems to me that for me, those are more about the loss, looking back like not here rather than ahead. So with this, because we know this is you know, and we've talked about how this has affected you just even you know, fairly recently about this the future that's not there, and you've had a lot of experience talking to a lot of parents. What do you wish people understood? And this would be for those that are listening that are walking alongside someone who's experienced this loss. What do you wish people understood about how long this grief lasts? Loaded question, I know.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Yeah, I mean, gosh. Well, we talked about last week, you know, time our last episode, time doesn't heal. I I wish they I wish people would realize that I would like to talk about him as much as I have a that I talk about other people I love. And I would like memories offered to me, even if they've told the same story over and over. It sometimes is a year and no one offers a a memory, you know, and maybe after this long it's oh, I'm sure she's heard that before, or maybe it'll make her cry, or just I mean, talk about feeling some resentment. It just feels like that doesn't cause me uh extra pain when you share something that you remember about my son. It makes me realize like he's loved always and still and remembered. And you know, I uh I think we have such a fear of our children being forgotten and I f uh feel like he often is. And that's not okay with me. You know? And there's feels like less and less that I have energy to do to make sure that I carry that. I feel like I've I've been often the one that carries that responsibility of let's remember and talk about and do do something.

SPEAKER_01 9:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

I would love to have someone else take that torch in my circle of family or friends and say, Hey, what if we did this this year? What if we I've been thinking about it too. What if we tried this? And just always my responsibility. And it sometimes does bring up some feelings of you know, resentment, anger anger. Like he was loved by a lot of people. Could uh anybody else maybe come up with something that would be a sweet little moment? We don't have to take two days and you know, be wailing on the floor. I think I've been pretty dang uh brave journeying through this. So people have been able to witness that I can got a lot of grit and I can get through things, but gosh, it'd be nice if people in our circles, and I've heard that from people um around me and that I've supported, suggest something. Lean in, don't be afraid.

Saying Their Name And Sharing Memories

SPEAKER_03 10:59

Yeah. Well, you know, we we've talked about just some of the purpose of this podcast, and I and I know there's others and where it's you know, you're normalizing the conversation around grief. And what you just said, this is another one of those reasons that where I want this podcast to grow, to reach people, that they can tell their friends, their family that very thing. And to know that it's okay to say that and it's okay to this is long term. It's not going anywhere. It it the future is not what we thought it was was going to be. But there, I think there can still be a future if we continue the conversations and it's okay to share memories, and it's okay to talk about or ask questions about our child that's not here. And I think if again, the more parents who've experienced this, maybe this was unspoken or they didn't really know how to put this in words, to go, hey, tell that circle. Let's have this conversation, let's continue that. And then those who are listening that are walking alongside someone to go, oh, then this is okay for me to do. Like, yes, we welcome it. So appreciated. So appreciate this to happen. Yeah. And and it's just, it's really just kind of getting that word out there so that it's okay to have these conversations, you know, and that that makes me think about, and I I think it was with you, and then I know with a couple of other parents that have told me when they shared their story on the podcast of other members of their family going, wait, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 12:46

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

I didn't, I didn't, you never said that, but then it's creating conversation for them as well. What did you remember? What did you see, or what did, and so it opens up again, it's normalizing the conversation, but it's opening up within that family group, which is they're talking about things they haven't talked about in a in maybe a very long time, and it's keeping that memory active and alive of that child. And then that spreads, I think, to friends who listen to a parent share on here to go, wait a minute. Because, you know, as you know, when you come on here to tell your story, it's it's very it's very vulnerable. There's a you kind of go where it where it goes, right? And there's things that come up because you're, you know, you're present and you're in that moment and you're and you're putting it out there, and then it might be something that you haven't really said that much about before that someone can hear and go, Oh, I w I wish I'd have known that before. I'm so glad you shared it now. And then have those conversations. And then again, like you said, maybe if it is it okay if I tell you about this one time when it's like, yeah. Yeah. Tell me.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Please. Even if I've heard it a hundred times, I want to soak it up again. When you said that, I'm wondering, are there things that you grieve that you've never really spoken that you've not said out loud?

SPEAKER_03 14:23

Hmm. I'm sure there are that maybe are so far so far in back in the file that I that it doesn't it's not coming it's not coming to mind. I mean, I know I do a especially when I do uh do groups, because again, I do the do the same way that we do on here is we we talk from experience and we're not giving advice. And so there's a there's things that somebody brings up and then I then say, well, for me this worked or this didn't work or whatever the situation was. So there's been some there's been some new ones lately, like in one of the groups, there was uh we were talking about the holidays, and and someone asked me about a particular my particular experience on one is as I'm going through it and talking about it and realizing that it tied into something deeper in my ex-wife, so Kristen's mom, where there was a conflict and it and it all kind of tied in to all of that. And then someone pointed out, it sounds like that's it sounds like that's a deeper, like that's kind of the the center of why you did some of this other stuff.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:47

And I'm like, wow, that's really good. You're right. Yeah, I didn't discover it. But I and and I needed to share as we were talking, and somebody else heard it. I didn't hear it myself. So yeah, there's probably there's probably some things that on a a public platform like this that I wouldn't say out loud.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

Yeah, I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_03 16:16

And I and that is just to protect other people.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

Mm-hmm. Yeah, absolutely. There are so many things that I yeah, have you. Oh, this is bringing up something with you, I see. Oh yeah, yeah. Okay, let's hear it. No, I I feel the same way. I feel the same way of just like, wow, there are things that are very um this shines a mirror, right? On that, and you do, you know, still want to protect relationships and want to protect people in your family and friends circle, but it doesn't make them go away. Doesn't, yeah. So I guess we'll we'll leave that that one there to ponder for for a little bit.

The Unspoken Parts Of Grief

SPEAKER_03 17:02

Yeah, there's I mean, there's some there's probably some things that are are better unspoken that it's not going to because the purpose of this is to help other parents. Right. And where that would not necessarily help other parents, but would in my case would certainly cause some some harm to we're gonna try to do no harm. Do no harm.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

Do no harm that mantra, we're gonna live by that.

SPEAKER_03 17:29

Yeah. You know, with Kristen was my only child, so it's been it's been different than for those who have other children. And I know I've talked to to parents that had to get up the next day, and I didn't. But did you feel any pressure to redirect maybe your your purpose or your like not having that the future that you thought would be with Zach? Did you feel like you had to repurpose, so to speak, or yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

I mean, at the time he was our only. We contemplated not having any other children. It didn't feel like a risk that I thought my heart could ever endure to love that deeply again and risk losing a child again, because I think any time you love, you risk loss. And for, you know, some of those times of talking about it, I just thought there's no way I'm going to risk another baby, but we were just so young. And I did. I didn't feel like, you know, what was my purpose? And I really threw myself in to a national organization called the Compassionate Friends.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Probably way too soon. I think I was their chapter leader and their newsletter editor and their did speaking around the region within a couple months. Wow. Because I, like you, did not want to do my own grief work. I wanted to, in quotations, help others.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

You know, and my help others was a great way to hide behind I'm helping others and not doing one bit of my own grief work. Really just in a place of I'm gonna reach out, I'm gonna go to these support groups, I'm gonna talk them into, you know, really allowing me to be super involved way earlier than their their standards um in that. I really admire that that organization for how they have guidelines now, but I did way too much way too early, and it was to find purpose. I think in our interview, you know, when Zach died, we had one dog, and by the time a couple months rolled around, we had like nine pets. Because I just thought, I've got to have something that needs me to cup in the morning. It doesn't matter if it's a lizard kneading crickets or a goldfish or a chinchilla or I mean I just it was ridiculous all the pets we tried to fill our lives with over the years. I still do it. I know, because it is this it's an unfillable void, and yet it's so tempting to try to fill it. And I didn't want to fill it with some of the things that I saw really causing harm, whether it was substances or taking risks to my physical being, those were tempting. But I just I just kept wanting to fill it with being needed, and um, it wasn't wasn't healthy.

SPEAKER_03 20:38

Yeah, that's our reality.

SPEAKER_00 20:40

Yeah.

Searching For Purpose After Loss

SPEAKER_03 20:41

I know we talk about not comparing grief, but I think it's an easy thing to walk into of comparing timelines that we've already talked about, what some children of others are experiencing that ours have not. And those feelings of resentment and and jealousy and you know, maybe feeling selfish for that, you know, grieving the possibilities of what could be. So we know that that's there. How can we normalize this experience of this shattered future and all those having all those feelings? How can we normalize that for other parents? Boy, that's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

You know, I really want to normalize the grief. I want to normalize that it it is what it is from every one moment to the next and the nonlinear fashion of it and the intensity of it, and then the, you know, people often brace for me to have these really tough days on milestones. And that's when I get a bunch of text or, you know, people kind of tiptoeing around and and they don't know what they don't know, but I kind of want to sometimes be like, oh, you missed it. My hard time was, you know, last Wednesday night at midnight. I didn't get a text, but that's that's when it happened. It blindsided me. So I think to normalize that everybody has those moments of just being completely blindsided and not knowing how they're gonna get through it and and the timeline of grief feeling infinite and but I you know what I think is different about this loss and what you just said. Really was an aha moment. I think we should continue to normalize grief, but we can't do what a lot of other grief platforms do. We can't normalize that our children left this earth before we did. And I think that's what makes child loss the shattering loss that it is. Because that can ever be normal. That's not what we ever thought was going to happen when we became parents. Of course, we think, we believe it's our worst nightmare, right? The moment we could become a parent, but we can't really imagine that it's going to happen. And so I think when you say normalize, let's keep that work of normalizing grief and normalizing what you need from other people and normalizing that, you know, you're not going crazy. But also keep in mind that what you're going through, this type of grief is not in the sequence of life. This is not normal to be planning your child's memorial. And so to give yourself extra grace as you navigate this, that it is going to be a different journey than grief that we anticipate as more of a sequence of life type of grief. Does that make any sense?

SPEAKER_03 23:47

Veloma, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Veloma. Absolutely.

unknown 23:50

Yeah.

Normalizing Grief Without Forcing Meaning

SPEAKER_03 23:51

Yes, it makes perfect sense. I think I mean things that help, I mean, certainly not fixes, but things that help, it's naming the loss out loud. The loss of the past and loss of the future. Like, name it. And allowing that grief to exist without needing a resolution to it. You know, the phrase, oh, well, they're in a better place, and all the things like you're looking for resolutions. What was the purpose? This is a grief that doesn't need a resolution. And it's okay. So some of those things, like rituals and letters, and as I said in my time with Kristen, like private moments that I acknowledge to other people after the fact, like, what'd you do on Kristen's, you know, like knowing it was Kristen's birthday, what'd you do? I said, Well, we did this. I was present with her, and my focus was her. And like you said, uh we both 100% agree that with that it grief is not linear. And so it's giving ourselves permission to grieve repeatedly. Like it's going to keep coming. We're not failing, we're not doing anything wrong. One of the best book titles that I've put out there before is like it's okay to not be okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

Absolutely.

What Helps In The First Minutes

SPEAKER_03 25:07

What would you tell? And you've had plenty of moments with newly bereaved parents, what would you tell them who feels this loss, but they can't name it? I mean, I know it's a fog at that that moment, but what what were what were some of the first things that you when you got those calls and you went to the hospital or you went wherever it was that you met them in that moment, was there something that that you could share that you that you said to them or I mean again, these aren't fixes. These aren't like, okay, here's the advice, not that.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

Boy, a lot of times just saying I have I don't have words. I'm right here with you, and I don't have any words. Just being present. And we're gonna get through this next minute. You know, we're gonna get through what do we ha what do we need to do this next minute? And some often it's breathe. It's breathe. Take a take a sip of water. People push food on you, but you don't really need to eat for several days, but you do need to not get dehydrated. You know, so can we what doesn't need to happen? This is not a race, you know, and who do you need next to you right now? And who do you need not next to you? Sometimes those are painful questions too, of you know, it I'm I'm I'm not saying in jest that as I prepare for milestones, I think of the people that don't need to be part of this time. You know, I can sound kind of flippant about that, but it's a very intentional removal of potential insensitive comments or people, and and I think that's from the moment a tragedy happens. I think we get pretty selective.

SPEAKER_03 26:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

And to let people know from those very early moments, you don't have to say yes or thank you or I'm sorry, or I'll get back to you. None of those things. That is just not lowering all of your expectations on yourself. A wise, wise man from Compassionate Friends said to me, I just lower my expectations of everybody, and that's how I get by. He actually had a big button made for himself that he'd wear at a group that just said, lower my expectations. Mm-hmm. I think it's that moment-to-moment mentality instead of thinking too far out there.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

Yeah, I think that and just giving yourself permission to cut some people out. I know there was a parent that I I did some one-on-one sessions with, and that was, and it was for milestones that would come up, that there was someone that always wanted to be there that they just really didn't and you know, because as they were just saying what it was doing to them and and some of the insensitivity and shifting the focus and and things like that. And I'd said it's okay to not invite them.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Absolutely.

Love With Nowhere To Go

SPEAKER_03 28:07

This isn't about a matter about being rude or mean or whatever. You have that right. And it's okay. And it's okay if they don't understand and they get mad or they have their feelings hurt. That's okay. Because they don't understand your feelings, obviously. And that's the part that matters. It's okay to cut some of those, cut some of those people out. You know, so we talked about tonight, just kind of, you know, getting close to wrapping up. You know, the future we imagined, I mean, didn't happen. And that loss is just as real as looking backwards. I mean, if you're listening and this grief feels familiar, you're not broken, and you're absolutely not alone. You're grieving love with nowhere to go. If if you have other children, you might see it, and I can't speak from experience on it because Kristen was my only child, you might feel like it's redirecting or whatever. And maybe you can speak better to this, but in in my case, yeah, I've got that love for my child, a child, and it there's no place for it to go. And I grieve that as well.

SPEAKER_00 29:26

Yeah. I feel that I I hear you. I really hear you. And I I think that that non-direction of where to put that love, I can Wow, I um I'm gonna think about that a lot after we're done talking tonight. I also want to say that, you know, if what we've talked about has stirred something up in you, please do, as the title of this podcast says, don't forget to breathe. Don't forget to remember that there's not a fix. Just notice what comes up and know that we do see you and that your child matters, both their their past and their future, and all the the what ifs that we all think of.

SPEAKER_03 30:17

Absolutely. As we wrap up this conversation about the shattered future, I think what Kristen and I are really naming is something many grieving parents feel, but don't always say out loud. When a child dies, we don't just grieve the life we shared with them. We grieve the life that was supposed to unfold. The birthdays that would have come, the graduations, the weddings, the everyday moments we expected to witness as our children grew into the people they were meant to become. And sometimes the hardest part is that the world keeps moving forward while we're still holding love for someone who isn't here to receive it. But if there's one thing we hope you take from this conversation, it's this your grief isn't wrong, your love isn't misplaced, and the future you imagined for your child matters. If you're a grieving parent listening today, please know this you're not broken and you're not alone. What you're feeling is the natural expression of love that still exists. And if you're someone walking alongside a grieving parent, one of the most meaningful things you can do is simply remember their child. Say their name, share a memory, let them know their child is not forgotten. Because when a child dies, the love doesn't disappear. It simply becomes love with nowhere to go. Thank you for spending this time with us. And wherever you are on your journey, don't forget to breathe.